Crazy Stupid Tech, Interview of Rodney Brooks with Om Malik.
iRobot Founder: Don’t Believe The (AI & Robotics) Hype!
This is a must read interview for all of us interested in the current technology trajectories. Veteran technology journalist Om Malik interviewed iRobot Founder Rodney Brooks about robots, AI, and technology trajectories.
We are in the middle of another massive technological wave, thanks to generative artificial intelligence and its offshoot, robotics. A tanker load of money is being poured into these two areas, and it has come with increasingly breathless promotional activity. It warrants a reality check. For that, I turned to Rodney Brooks, who has spent decades in both arenas. The Australian-born Brooks was a Professor of Robotics at MIT and former director of the MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. He has founded three companies: iRobot (maker of the Roomba), Rethink Robotics, and now Robust.AI, which now builds warehouse automation robots. He is an academic who entered the startup arena and hasn’t left it since.
Rodney: At MIT, I taught big classes with lots of students, so maybe that helped. I came here in an Uber this morning and asked the guy what street we were on. He had no clue. He said, “I just follow it.” (‘It’ being the GPS—Ed.) And that’s the issue—there’s human intervention, but people can’t figure out how to help when things go wrong.
Rodney: My companies have always been about letting the person still have control. The previous one, Rethink Robotics, involved people showing the robot what to do. The Roomba had a handle; if it got stuck, you could pick it up and move it. If a human grabs the Carta cart, they’re now in charge. If you grab its magic handlebar, you are like Superman—you move your hand a little, and it amplifies what you’re doing. We make the floor worker take control and put it in the right place without much physical effort.
There’s a tendency to go for the flashy demo, but the flashy demo doesn’t deal with the real environment. It’s going to have to operate in the messy reality. That’s why it takes so long for these technologies.
Rodney: I think we need multiple education approaches and not put everything in the same bucket. I see this in Australia—”What’s your bachelor’s degree?” “I’m doing a bachelor’s degree in tourism management.” That’s not an intellectual pursuit, that’s job training, and we should make that distinction. The German system has had this for a long time—job training being a very big part of their education, but it’s not the same as their elite universities.
[ Brooks is right in pointing out that we are busy propping up an education system that creates work for an industrial and industrial-version of digital economies. Germans (and many other parts of the world) have this idea of diplomas in specialized trade skills, which is exactly how we are going to be thinking about in the future, because the idea of work, augmented by digitized automation, both robotic and software, will need to evolve. As such, we need to really rethink the entire map of employment and fine-tune “collegial output” in terms of jobs needed to be done in tandem with the emergence of rapid computerized automation. The United States is still trying to use the same template of education that it has for decades. –OM ]
When Elon Musk decided he wanted to put stuff into orbit, he didn’t say, “I’ll write a Python script, and that will get stuff into orbit.” He had to figure out how to burn fuel efficiently, worry about mass, liquid flows, high temperatures, because you can write as big a program as you want, it’s not going to get stuff into orbit. Computation is not the stuff you need to physically move things.
I started manufacturing in China in the late ’90s. Just last week, my company put out a press release that Foxconn is going to build our robots at scale. They’re based in Taiwan, but it’s undeniable—if you want to do something at scale, that’s how you have to do it.
But let’s look ahead to this century. Fifty years from now, all the innovation is going to be happening in Nigeria. They’re going to be such a big part of the world population, and they’re going to have so many problems they have to deal with, and they will deal with them. Nigeria is going to be the center of the technological universe by the end of this century. (Just as China and its large population, and its need to solve its problems made it into an economic powerhouse, Brooks believes the sheer size of Nigeria is going to make it an economic and technological epicenter.–Ed)
Rodney: I was at a Brown University commencement giving a talk. And we were bemoaning the loss of US manufacturing. I asked the parents of the about to be Brown graduates—do who wants your kids to work in a factory? Oh no, not us! The poor people need the jobs, not my child. Who aspires that their kid is going to work at the sewage company? This bemoaning of manufacturing being lost is a little duplicitous—it’s not for us, it’s for the poor people.
Click on the Follow button at the bottom of the page to subscribe to a weekly email update of posts. Click on the mail icon to subscribe to additional email thoughts.
